Date 11 Aug 1998 103439 -0700
From dick.bishop2@MCI2000.COM (Dick Bishop)
To GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Message-ID <0EXJ004CGCTOFT@PM01SM.PMM.MCI.NET>
Subject Re Delano, de Lannoy falsifications
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Leo wrote on Tuesday, 11 August 1998

> A while ago I was contacted by someone in America who believed he
> was a descendant of William the Silent. Sadly for him I 'debunked'
> that line. He told me that a genealogist many years ago had 'produced'
> that link to give people royal ancestors. Many people in America
> still believe this line. I have had later contacts from a few people
> believing that line and simply did not answer when I explained.
> 
> The first one, a policeman, then asked me to check more and out came
> Delano. And that I fear could be your link too. Can you give me more
> about your Philip Delano? In a few generations before him there is a
> de Lannoy married to a de Ligne, and that is were the wrong link is
> displayed. They had three or four children and then suddenly (too) many
> years later another one. I don't know whether you know the Europaischen
> Stammtafeln with Schwennicke as editor? The de Lannoy and de Ligne
families
> are in these books and that very much later child is not to be found
> there. 

This is NOT intended to REFUTE Leo in any manner, but are additonal 
comments based on secondary sources I have seen.

There is a website called, "Descendants of Philippe Delano" at
http//www.familytreemaker.com/plweb-cgi/fastweb?getdoc+ ...
that lists the ancestry of Philip Delano back thirteen generations 
to Corad de Franchimont and Arnulphe de Franchimont.  I don't 
believe this for a second.  This appears to have come from
"The Genealogy History and Alliances of the American House
of Delano 1621 to 1899" compiled in 1899 by Major Joel Andrew
Delano.  On page 47, Major Delano himself starts Philip's grandfather's
[Gysbert de Lannoy] narrative with "[The supposed disinherited son 
of Jean]".  Being disinherited, documentation has been obliterated,
deleted, etc.,   There is currently no proof that has come to light
to support the allegation that Jean was the father of Gysbert that
I know of.

"The Great Migration Begins - Immigrants to New England 1620-1633"
Vol I, page 517, 1995 by Robert Charles Anderson; "Register of
Qualified Huguenot Ancestors of the National Huguenot Society", 
fourth edition, page 145, 1995, compiled by Arthur Louis Finnell;
and "The Pioneers of Massachusetts" 1977 edition, page 136,
by Charles Henry Pope all say that Philip was of French parents, 
but do not attempt to name them.

"The American Genealogist" Vol 52, pages 91-92 and Vol 53,
pages 172-173, article entitled "Some Delano Answers" by Kerry
William Bates indicates that there was a confusion of two Jean
de Lannoy families and states that Gysbert de Lannoy was not 
the grandfather of our Philip (married to Mary Pontus).

I don't have a copy of the full article before me, but the "New England
Historical & Genealogical Register", Vol 143, 1989, contains an
interesting article on the recent (at that time) Leiden Records that have
been researched - don't have the author's name or credentials - and 
I believe it implies that Gysbert was the grandfather of Philip.

Based on secondary source, there is definitely some controversary
or confusion about this family.  I personally don't have anything I would
call reliable data that goes back beyond Philip's parents being
Jean de la Noye (de Lannoy) and Marie (le) Mahieu.

Please note  I do not have access not have I seen what "Europaischen
Stammtafeln" has to say.

If anyone has any additional information or comments on this family,
I would love to hear about it.

Dick Bishop
Newport News, VA

P.S.  There were undoubtedly many Philip Delano's.  I am assuming this
is the ame one.  However, de Ligne appears more than a couple 
generations back and looks to me to be in a different line???


****************************
1.  This "disinherited son" trick was --- and still is --- a favorite gambit
of discredited genealogical charlatans, who prey on a gullible and naive
public.

2.  Another favorite gambit of the pond-scum genealogist is the "second" or
"younger son" who "may have been illegitimate" but in any case "did not
inherit his Father's estates and therefore came to America to find his
fortune."

3.  A third is the "three brothers" theme, where "three brothers came to
America, one prospered and is well known" --- the Family we want to hook
into --- "one returned to England", or wherever --- and the third, our
direct line, often the youngest brother, "was not particularly prominent or
prosperous, but a very good and honest man [perhaps he was cheated by his
elder brothers]".  He and his family were not well educated or literate, so
they did not keep good records, which explains why the charlatan genealogist
is having so much trouble finding out anything about him.

Quod erat demonstrandum

D. Spencer Hines

Lux et Veritas

********************************************
Date 12 Aug 1998 225800 GMT
From stardog@aol.com (Stardog)
To GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com
Message-ID <1998081222580000.SAA15734@ladder03.news.aol.com>
Subject Re Delano, de Lannoy falsifications

I have the line of Jean de Lannoy who married Marie le Mahieu as follows 
(please let me know what lines are incorrect or where is the possible break in
the correct line)

I.  Philippe de Lannoy born 1485 died in Louvain 12-9-1543 buried
    in Solre-le-Chateau, X   29-10-1508 Marguerite de Bourgogne,

died 14-1-1511, daughter of Bauduin de Bourgogne (descendant of the Dukes of
Burgundy) and Marie Manuel de la Cerda. 

II.  Jean de Lannoy born in Solre-le-Chateau towards 1509, Seigneur de
Molembais, Solre-le-Chateau X before 1529 Jeanne de Ligne-Barbancon died 1560,
their children

1.  Louis died in Brussels 22-8-1532, age 3 months, buried in    
    Sainte Gudule.
2.  Marie, dame de Fouleng X Jean, Marquis de Bergen Op Zoom
     died 1580 with out issue
3.  Francois died as a child
4.  Florent died 1532 as a child
III. Gysbert born Tourcoing 1535 X Marguerite de Ligne, their children
    a.  Jean born towards 1570 died Leyde 1604 X in Tournai 13-1-     1596
Marie le Mahieu born 1578.  She married a second time in 1605 with Jean Pesin
(Pesyn)
    b.  Jacques, married in may 1601 with a native of Coutrai

Thanks for the corrections!  

*************************************
Dear Stardog (you didn't sign),
I have seen this tree before only then they gave Gysbert a much later 
date of birth, creating a huge time gap between Marie and Gysbert.
Jeanne de Ligne-Barbancon died 24 September 1559 (finger trouble?).
She married 13 September 1530 (not before 1529).

Europaischen Stammtafeln Volume VIII page 12 is where this family
is recorded. It also gives more dates for the children, which will
re-arrange your order for the children.

1.Francois, born 1531, died 1532

2.Louis, born May 1532, died 22 August 1532

3.Florent, died 21 February 1533

4.Marie, Heiress of Molembais et Solre-le-Chateau
  born 1534, died 14 May 1580

You give Jean de Lannoy and Jeanne de Ligne the correct number (4) of
children, where do you have Gysbert fit in? Your pattern implies
he is their son also but you do not actually say so. If Gysbert
is their son, according to your details he has a de Ligne mother
and wife. And so he did not marry to upset his parents, why was
it Marie who inherited the family properties? Was Gysbert perhaps
illegitimate?

What I find fascinating is that Gysbert apparently was born in Tourcoing.
Jean de Lannoy 1509-1559 had a half-brother, Baudoin, who was seigneur de
Tourcoing. And two of Baudoin's sons, Philippe and Francois, also.
Tourcoing was a property of the father of both Jean and Baudoin, and this
father, Philippe 1487-1543, was alive when Gysbert was born.
  
All I can say is that Gysbert is not a legitimate son of Jean de Lannoy
1509-1559. This branch of the de Lannoys do not use the name Gysbert,
and if he is illegitimate then his Burgundy ancestors still hold good,
as long as Jean is his father.

I would be grateful if you could, for me, re-attach Gysbert and make
all the Delanos descendants of the de Lannoys after all.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Leo van de Pas
********************************************