Thought I'd pass on a bit of Medieval trivia from a small series of "boutique books." :-) Since I do medieval workshops with people who entertain at Renaissance Festivals, I am constantly in search of costuming and
everyday facts:

Anyone who has attended a Medieval Festival knows that many of these activities are tongue-in-cheek. These events are generally done from a humorous standpoint ... what better way to get people there than to entertain. If this is geared too low for some, feel free to delete!

The first book by Vicki Powers is called VAMITY: A VERY PECULIAR HISTORY. New York: Franklin Watts, 1995, ISBN 0-531-15273-1 (paperback).

"It is said that the fashionable Catherine de Medici (1519-1589), wife of Henry II of France, invented the iron corset to slim women in her court."

"In the 15th century, corsets were worn high to flatten the bust, when lying down women even put lead plates onto their chests."

"Lily white skin has been prized by men and women throughout history. It denoted enough wealth, so that it was unneccesary to work outside." Women achieved this pale look with poisionous white lead based "make-up." Of course, in today's world tans are considered healthy looking, BUT now the trend is back to whiter skin because of skin cancer.

"Queen Elizabeth I's skin was ruined by a lead-based white face paste."

"Queen Elizabeth I, in middle age, tried to simulate the translucent skin of a younger woman by painting blue veins on her forehead over ceruse (the white lead make-up). The ceruse ate into her flesh, so she had to apply it more and more layers."

"16th century women put belladona into their eyes to dilate the pupils." (a sign of beauty?) Gave a darker look to the eye.

"15th century European women plucked or shaved their hairlines to form a fashionable high forehead."

"John Steiniger, a major in Austria, grew an 8.5 foot (2.6 m) beard. One day in 1567 he neglected to tuck it up, tripped over it, fell down the stairs and died."

"Elizabeth I has thinning hair (attributed to some as a result of the overuse of lead-based make-up).

"In the middle ages, a man's shoe, the "poulaine" had a toe so long it was considered sexually suggestive."

"Chopines rose to fame in the 16th century (in) Venice and were worn by the European elite for centuries despite efforts to ban them. With cork or leather soles 20" (50cm) high, they made it impossible for women to walk unaided." (If anyone has seen the Zepherelli (sp?) version of Shakespeare's "Taming of the Shrew," you'll remember a street scene showing a large blonde prostitute wearing chopines).

"Isabella, the wife of French king Charles VI (reigned 1380-1422) is said to have shed fat by sweating it out in special hot rooms."

"Elizabeth I plucked her eyebrows and forehead to fashion and later wore a curly red wig to disguise thinning hair. She also carried wads of cotton to puff up her cheek (shades of Marlon Brando in the "Godfather"), sunken by rotting teeth."

Ceruse - lethal make-up to whiten the face made from white lead, vinegar and egg whites. The best ceruse was said to have come from Venice, Italy. Ceruse ate into the skin...with each application it steadily was absorbed into the blood stream, often causing death.

"Peapod belly" described as a false paunch was thought to improve a man's figure, attained by stuffing the shirt. It was worn by European men in the 16th century." Does anyone known the origination of the term "stuffed shirt?" Apparently, a large belly equated a healthy diet...? (at least in the minds of the time)

AND we must not forget the fashionable Italian gentlemen of 1565 who wore a prominent codpiece to conceal the gap at the top of men's hose, when coats shortened in the 15th and 16th century. Codpieces were stiffened, decorated, and sometimes (according to legend) used to hide jewels and bonbons (Huh?). (Must be how the phrase about protecting the family jewels got started?

Anyway, consider this a medieval/renaissance version of Ripley's believe it ot not!. What price vanity?

The Scottish King, Robert the Bruce (1274-1329) wanted his heart to make a pilgrimage to the Holy Lands. Sir James Douglas carried the heart of the Bruce on his way to honor his King's wishes. However, as Douglas got caught up in a battle in Spain, he flung the casket containing the heart into the fray.

The Spanish hero, El Cid's corpse was strapped to his horse, so that his men would not lose heart, and helped his troops to win a last victory.

Upon the death of Eleanor of Castile(1254-1290), Edward I was deep heartbroken at her lose. Crosses were erected along the route which her entourage follwed while taking her body to be buried in London. Some of these crosses still stand today.

King Charles II of England (1660-1685) was famous for rarely washing.

Monks were mostly from wealthy, well-connected families, but the church varied on cleaniless being next to Godliness, some orders were clean while others rarely bathed.

Garderobes (lavatories) were discharged into the moats and the moat was stocked with fish that fed upon human waste. At castles without moats, underground pits held the waste.

In houses without lavatories, chamber pots were used at night. In the morning they were emptied into the street.

In 1594, Sir John Harington(1560-1612) (courtier) invented the first freestanding flushable lavatory. Queen Elizabeth I was "well-pleased" with the results.

In medieval times one was to strive for cleanliness, politeness, and considerate behavior. These were considered signs of good breeding. One 14th century scholar taught his students that "Manners makyth the man."

In contrast, ordinary people (servants, traders, and peasants) were famous for their lack of manners. They were rough, tough, outspoken, and quarrelsome. They would spit in the street, get drunk, be sick, and fall into the ditches. They had lice, fleas, and worms.

A royal riddle: "What is it that being born without life, head, lip, or eye, yet doth run roaring through the world til it die? This riddle was put forth by Henry VIII. The answer is a (fart).

Causes of death of Royalty: (taken fromTHE BOOK OF ROYAL LISTS edited by Craig Brown and Lesley Cunliffe. New York: Summit Books, 1982.

William the Conqueror - died of a burst bowel at age 59. While jumping a trench on horseback, his stomach was forced onto the pommel.

William II - possibly murdered while hunting, he died at 40 with an arrow through his heart.

Henry I - A surfeit of lampreys (none too fresh) caused his death of promanine poisoning at age 67.

Stephen died of a ruptured appendix at age 57.

Henry II had a cerebral hemmorage at age 55.

Richard I died of gangrene resulting from an arrow wound in his shoulder in battle. He died at age 49.

John died of dysentary following a surfeit of peaches and cider when he was
49.

Edward I died of dysentary and bowel hemmorage, 68.

Edward II Murdered cruelly by his wife's confederates who thrust a red-hot spit into his bowel through a horm forced into his rectum when he was 43.

Edward III died of gonorrhoea contracted from his mistress at age 65.

Richard II Anorexia nervosa from depression at 36 (Shakespeare has him murdered by a pole-axe by Sir Piers Exton, but his skull shows no sign of fractures).

Henry IV died of acute chronic eczema and chronic intestinal toxaemia. Dead at age 46.

Henry V died of bloody flux or dysentery at age 35.

Henry VI was murdered by Gloucester in the Tower of London, 49 years of age at death.

Edward IV died of pneumonia, age 42

Edward V Possibly smoothered, age 12 in the Tower of London.

Richard III Died of a skull fracture from an axe at Bosworth Field, age 36.

Henry VII died of gout and consumption at 52

Henry VIII Died of Syphilus, aged 58, and soon after his corpse was placed in the chapel at Windsor, two weeks after his death, the lead coffin burst open and according to one witness: "all the pavement of the church was with the fat and the corrupt and putrefied blood foully imbued." Henry VIII died on a Saturday.

Judging by his armor, King Henry VIII put on 17 inches to his waist in 5 years. He was so fat that machines with pulleys had to hoist him up into his saddle.

Edward VI died of consumption and congenital syphilus aged 15

Lady Jane Grey was beheaded at age 16

Mary I died of influenza when she was 42

Elizabeth I died of infected tonsils at age 69

Queen Matilda, wife of William the Conqueror attained the height of only 4 feet 2 inches. William the Conqueror was so strong that he could vault into the saddle clad in full armor.

King Charles I stood only 4 feet 7 inches tall.

King Edward the Confessor was an albino.

Some of the royal deaths were decided when they had to move bodies during flooding, etc. They did coroner's examinations on them, since many had quite literally spilled out of their resting places.. Matilda they are not sure about because her body was moved so many times, however, the body that remains was a dwarf.

It's sort of like the mystery about where is Christobal Colon (Columbus) really is buried. I was at his supposed tomb in Santo Domingo (Hispanola) quite a display but no one really is sure since more than one place claims they have his real body.

Queen Elizabeth I's wardrobe included over 2,000 dresses.

Queen Elizabeth I survived a shot fired from the shore, wounding one of her bargemen. The Queen offered her handkerchief and said: Be of good cheer, for you will never want. For the bullet was meant for me."

Anne Boleyn was said to have vomiting spells, so she hired a noblewoman to hold up a sheet when the urge came upon her. Her fist use of this sheet was at her Coronation banquet. This brings up the question of did she also suffer from bulima.(?)

Elizabeth I had to have some rotten teeth removed, and the Bishop of London had one of his own teeth extracted to demonstrate the ease of removal...apparently the Queen was sqeamish?

Another time when it was "good to be Queen" was when Elizabeth I visited Sir Thomas Gresham's new home at Osterley in Middlesex. She mentioned that she thought the courtyard was too large and would look better with a dividing wall. Sir Thomas set to London and workman had it altered to her suggestion by the following morning.

A speech impediment was said to been suffered by William Rufus.

Syphillus or gonorrhoea was suffered by Henry VIII. One said he caught it when Cardinal Wolsey whispered in his ear. :-)

Gout by suffered by Henry VIII and his father Henry VII

Mary Tudor's pet Skye was said to have been found hiding under her shirts after her execution. Reminds one of Greysfriar's Bobby

Encouraged by the Dutchman Cornelius Lannoy's predictions that he could turn metal into gold, Elizabeth I built a laboratory for him. When no gold was forthcoming, Mr. Lannoy was sent to the Tower of London on charges of deception.

When the extreme Puritan, John Stubbs, suggested that Queen Elizabeth I was too old to marry, the Queen ordered his right hand to be cut-off. Just as the axe was coming down on his right hand, the good-natured Stubbs lifted his hat with his left hand and yelled, "God Save the Queen."

Nell Gwynne began her career as an orange seller at the Theatre Royal in Drury Lane, where she was first noticed by King Charles I. Her sons were created Dukes of St. Albans. The king called her "Nelly." Her name for him was Charles III, since her previous lovers were Charles Buckhurst and Charles Hart.

Henry VI, though young, was said to have been puritanical and said: "Fy, fry, for shame, forsoothe ye be to blame!" upon the glimpse of bare chested dancers brought to entertain him. This was recorded by Blacman a biographer of Henry's. It was said that the King adverted his eyes and was apalled at the Lord who brought them thinking that such a display would please him.

In her old age, Queen Elizabeth I had the habit of opening the front of her robe, revealing the whole of her bosom to the assembled coutiers and ambassadors who surrounded her.

These are also in THE BOOK OF ROYAL LISTS by Craig Brown and Lesley Cunliffe. These details were recorded in letters and diaries of those who knew...and even the Vatican has the love letters that Henry VIII wrote to Anne Boleyn.

"Nell Gwynne rose from selling oranges outside Drury Lane Theatre to become a leading actress of the day and the most celebrated of Charles' mistresses."

The child in this same picture is one of her two sons by King Charles, Duke of St Albans. Fraser states also that: "The Merry Monarch did not eat or drink to success but had a large sexual appetite, enjoying a succession of mistresses - Nell Gwynne is the best remembered-whom he rewarded generously but did not love." He refused to divorce the Queen. In spite of all his escapades, Charles II was considered a successful King by most of hissubjects.

In Nigel Cawthorne's book THE SEX LIVES OF THE KINGS AND QUEENS OF ENGLAND there is a portrait of Charles II and if it is correct, he was a very handsome man. This book also has a small portrait of another mistress Barbara Villers, Dutchess of Cleveland. She is described as "the lewdest as well as the fairest of King Charles' concubines."

This book has portraits of many of his mistresses, and goes on to say that Charles II was first seduced by his former wet nurse, Christalla Wyndham, the wife of the royal governor of Bridgewater. Edward Hyde spoke of Christella as "a woman of great rudeness and country pride."

In 1649, Charles took up with Lucy Walters whom diarist John Evelyn called "a beautiful strumpet." Apparently, she had other liasons with a Colonel Sydney and when Charles met her she called herself Mrs. Barlow. Lucy is said to have bore him a son, James. They said that when Charles was away, she took other lovers and she had a daughter that Charles II would not claim
as his own. In 1656, Lucy travelled to England with a Colonel Howard. She was arrested as a royalist spy, and deported as Charles whore. Charles took his son, James, from her and was discarded. She is said to have died of syphilus and was buried in a pauper's grave.

James, son of Lucy, became Duke of Monmouth.

Another truth has been suggested. It is reputed that one of Charles courtiers, Colonel Cundum, is believed to have given his name to the condom.

An invention of Gabriel Fallopius, the Italian anatomist who "discovered" the uterus. It is said that he named all women's parts (as they are called today). The first condom was said to be made of fish skin, and was used to prevent syphilis, which had just arrived in Europe and was "sweeping the continent."

Charles was said to have had three more bastard children before returning to England. One was said to be by Elizabeth Killigrew and two by Catherine Pegge, both women were daughters of exiled cavaliers. Add to the list Lady Elizabeth Byron, and Madame de Chatillon. It is said that seventeen of his mistresses are known.

In 1660 Barbara Villers, an Englishwoman was his favorite. Villers was said to have been lecherous from a very young age.

Others named are: Barbara Palmer, who gave birth to a daughter; Lady Castelmaine, Frances Stewart, Countess of Kildare, Lady Falmouth, Jane Roberts, a clergyman's daughter; Moll Davies (had a daughter Lady Mary Tudor).

Nell's mother was said to have sold ale in Mrs. Ross' brothel in Drury Lane. One of Nell's liasons, before Charles II, was saifd to have been the great- nephew of William Shakespeare.

Another liason was with Hortense de Mancini, the Dutchess of Mazarin...whose first husband, The Duke of Mazarin was said to have been a religious fanatic.

With all that went on during his reign it is not wonder the king was the nbrunt of many jokes in regard to his sexual prowess.


Good evening to the Gen Med Group,

August of 1997 I decided to put together as much of a complete lisitng of the various messages I’d intercepted about which books and sources to use for searching out ancient lineages. To this end, I have now completed this information.

The second batch below is a compilation of information on Genealogical Medieval Internet List Group, snipped to meet our needs. The first is a worksheet for a Colonial Dames Seventeenth Century workshop, from which sources they work to prove Armorial Ancestors. I haven’t gotten permission from the CD17 list compiler to put her name on the internet, but I will give her credit if she says I can, meanwhile since it was just a worksheet handout, I believe it will be ok to post the content. It was stressed that no book sources were 100% accurate but some were, more than others.

>From what I can gather, the medieval period covers time spans from roughly 800 to 1500’s, but varies according to the authority.

I hope neither group is offended that I have combined all their information. I needed it for my own purposes and thought it worth
sharing with everyone. I take no credit any of work of the list, I just retyped some of it and hope I have it correctly entered. Please correct me if you want to. I hope the grouped information may help someone else, as it has helped me.

Much thanks to all of you who had a part in the discussions, for
advancing the research for all us who still struggle to find the right
book, and wonder if it’s a reliable one, or just useful. I know other
neophytes besides myself thank you one and all, for the education we get
>from this list.

Billye D. Jackson. Victoria County Genealogical Society-Computer Support
Group. Victoria, Texas. March 1998
<mailto:coffey@viptx.net> March 1998
[The following will be taken directly from the May 1996 handout]

Colonial Dames of the Seventeenth Century:

REFERENCE BOOKS: [REMEMBER: NO BOOK IS 100% ACCURATE]
1. Weis, Frederick Ancestral Roots of 60 Colonists
2. Weis, Frederick Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists
3. Weis, Frederick Magna Charta Sureties, 1215
4. Burke’s The GeneralArmory of England, Scotland, Ireland & Wales
5. Burke’s Irish Family Records
6. Burke’s Genealogical & Heraldic History of Landed Gentry
7. Burke’s Peerage & Baronetage
8. Burke’s Amerian Families with British Ancestry
9. Burke’s Prominent Families of U.S.
10. Burke’s Family Records
11. Coggehsall, Robert Ancestors & Kin
12. Riestap, J.B. Armorial General, 2 Vol.
13. Rolland, V. Illustrations
14. MacKenzie, George Colonial Families of the U.S.A., 7 Vol
15. Cokayne, George The Complete Peerage, 6 Vol. {and comes in a 13 Vol.
ver.}
16. Gibbs, Vicary The Complete Peerage, 13 Vol.
17. Sheppard, Walter L. Descendants of the Illegitimate Sons & Daughters
of Kings of
Britain-Lineage Book
18. Franklyn, Julian Heraldry
19. Kimber, E. Baronetage of England, 4 Vol.
20. Taute, Anne Kings & Queens of Great Britain: A Genealogical Chart
Showing their
Descent & Relationships
21. Louda, Jiri Heraldry of the Royal Families of Europe
22. Moncreiff, Iain Royal Highness: Ancestry of the Royal Child
23. Morarity, George The Plantagenet Ancestry of King Edward III & Queen
Phillipa
24. Papworth, John Ordinary of British Armorials
25. Given-Wilson, Chris The Royal Bastards of Medieval England
26. Sherman, Robert Mayflower Families Through 5 Generations, 2 Vols.
27. Dennys, Rodney Heraldry & the Heralds
28. Fox-Davies, Arthur A Complete Guide to Heraldry
29. Fox-Davies, Arthur Armorial Families
30. Shaw, William The Knights of England
31. Foster, Joseph The Dictionary of Heraldry
32. Foster, Joseph Some Feudal Coats of Arms
33. Roberts, Gary B. The Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants
34. Buck, J.O. Pedigrees of Some of Emperor Charlemagne’s Descendants,
Vol. II & III
35. Ziber, Eugene Heraldry in America
36. Bye, Arthur E. Magna Charta, King John & the Barons
37. Harlein Society Visitations of Shires (Great Britain)
38. British Biography Dictionary of National Biography, 22 Vol.
39. Faris, David Plantagenet & Ancestry of 17th Century Colonists
BOOKS NOT RELIABLE: REMEMBER, USE WITH CAUTION
41. Wurts, John S. Magna Charta, Series 8 Vol.
42. Browning,Charles H. Americans of Royal Descent
43. Browning,Charles H. Magna Charta Barons
44. Virkus Compendium of American Genealogy
45. Jordan Your Family Tree
46. Turton, Wh. H. Plantagenet Ancestry
47. Crozier, William General Armory
48. Crozier, William Virginai Heraldica
49. Hobby Magazine At the Sign of the Crest (various family names)
50. Burke’s Genealogical History of Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited &
Escinct Peerages
of the British Empire
51. Burke’s Extinct & Dormant Baronetcies
52. (I missed name) A Dictionary of Arms
[53. Du’chess/Cleveland The Battle Abbey Roll, with Some Account of the
Norman Lineages
{this one was not on the list from CD17} ]

Comments on the various books above:
1. Used heavily. Go by line #, not page #. Gives lineages, must use
other to find arms.
11. Well done, good sources, gives gen.# and Coats of Arms for different
generations.
32. Family name & description. Good to know shire & county. Accurate,
but no dates.
33. Good. Used a lot.
34. Vol. 1 has some errors, other two are ok. Good, & easy to use.
39. Difficult to figure out, but good. Can get it from AGLL , new
1996. He hopes to replace F. Weis.

Hints from CD17 offiices:
If your Primary or Supplemental immigrant/colonial ancestor appears on
either the “New England Historic Genealogical Society’s Roll of Arms
Index” (NEGHS) or the “Order of Americans of Armorial Ancestry Index”
(OAAA), then it is not necessary to further document your line in order
to complete a COA. However you may wish to do this regardless, to show
the relationships and learn to whom the COA was awarded.

Family genealogies must be well documented if used. In addition to your
proof pages, please photocopy and incllude the title page, as well as
the bibliography pages citing the compiler’s sources and references.

Always put the name of the county (if given) after an individual’s name
to help distinguish him or her from others with the same name. (I.E.
John doe of Surrey Co. And John Doe of Derbyshire)

It also helps to put d/o [daughter of John Doe] in case you decide to
branch off the line later at that pont to continue the lineage on the
wife’s side. The same can also apply for the husband as s/o John Doe for
“son of John Doe”. You can branch off at any point on a lineage to
pursue different Armigers; just be sure to watch you generation numbers
Fill in as much information as possible on each generation regarding
names, dates, and places.

Next, from THE GEN MED DISCUSSION LIST:

JKent10581 <JKent10581@aol.com> wrote in article
<4d6f6892.34fe0002@aol.com>...
> In a message dated 98-03-04 19:58:15 EST, EDLMANN@MAIL2.LCIA.COM
writes:
> For those of you who want to know what some of these reference
books are
here is a good list. Print this out on your printer and then you can
refer
back to it when you want to check your library's holdings.<snip>

> Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
> AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
> [Pres. # : page].
> BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
> BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
> BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
> BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
> EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I,
[page].
> EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol
II,
> [page].
> EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
> [page].
> F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
> W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.

Next:
>Here are some that I have listed on my computer.
> They don't give the relevant time periods. Most are concerned with the

> 1300-1400, though many go beyond this period. I will try to get more
> details to you later. A list of main resources would be a boon to all
> researchers.
>
> 1. Collectanea Topographica Genealogica > 2. Inquisitions and Assessments relating to Feudal Aids with other > analogous documents preserved in the public record office AD. 1284 - > 1431 > 3. Feudal Aids > 4. Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem and other analogous documents > preserved in the public record office > 5. Calendar of Inquisitions Miscellaneous and other analogous documents > preserved in the public record office > 6. Calendar of Charter Rolls and other analogous documents preserved in > the public record office > 7.Calendar of Fine Rolls and other analogous documents preserved in the > public record office > 8.Calendar of Close Rolls and other analogous documents preserved in the > public record office > 9.Calendar of Patent Rolls and other analogous documents preserved in > the public record office > 10. Palatinate of Chester > 11. The Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and > the United Kingdom by G.E.C. edited by Gibbs. > 12. The Black Prince's Register > 13. The Manors of Suffolk by W.A. Copinger > 14. Sussex Archaeological Collections > 15. History of Dorset by Hutchins > 16. Ormerod "Chershire" > 17. Blomefields Norfolk > 18.The Victoria County History Series (of the Counties of England) > 19.The Dictionary of National Biography > > Paul Mackenzie > 5/51 Fennell St. > Paramatta > Australia Next: Subject: Re: Waters' Genealogical Gleanings Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 12:30:08 -0700 To: Adrian Channing <106516.2301@compuserve.com> CC:GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com References: Adrian Channing wrote: > > I read that Genealogical Gleanings in England by Henry F Waters (1,800 > pages) originally printed in 1907 has just been reprinted by Clearfield > Company, 200 East Eager Street, Baltimore at $115. > Does anyone know of this work and is it reliable? > Adrian Channing 106516.2301@Compuserv.Com (Surrey, UK) Yes, it is reliable. Clearfield really has gall charging that much. It was originally printed in the New England Historical Genealogical Society Register. Kay Allen allenk@pacbell.com Next: Subject: Re: Grading sources Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 13:20:37 -0400 From: "Jerry W. Murphy" <jwmurphy@NETEASE.NET> To: <GEN-MEDIEVAL@rootsweb.com> I'm curious as to how the books listed below rate on the source and finding aid scale: "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol. I", by Marcellus Donald R. Von Redlich (1941, reprinted 1996) ISBN 0-8063-0494-4 "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol. II", by Aileen Lewers Langston & J. Orton Buck, Jr. (1974, reprinted 1988) ISBN 0-8063-1163-0 "Pedigrees of Some of the Emperor Charlemagne's Descendants, Vol. III", by J. Orton Buck & Timothy Field Beard (1978, reprinted 1988) ISBN 0-8063-1211-4 "The Plantagenet Encyclopedia, an Alphabetical Guide to 400 years of English History", general editor - Elizabeth Hallam (1996) ISBN 0-517-14081-0 "Chronicle of the Royal Family", editor - Derrik Mercer (1991) ISBN 0582-09006-7 in UK & Ireland, ISBN 1-872031-20-X in Canada "The Great Historic Families of Scotland"(both volumes), by James Taylor (1887 & 1889, reprinted 1995) ISBN 0-8063-1464-8 "A History of Russia", by Nicholas V. Riasanovsky (1963) [Library of Congress Card # 63-7869] Some of these books are readily available to researchers or genealogists, if you prefer, and I thought it might be a good idea to know how they rate on the grading scale. Thank you. Jerry W. Murphy jwmurphy@netease.net Next: From: "D. Spencer Hines" <shines@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> Stewart Baldwin wrote a piece, dated 5 August 1997, on Grading Sources that received an abysmal response ---- and that is a bloody shame. It deserves better. I have reformatted one long, key paragraph, which should get more attention: Again, this is Stewart Baldwin's writing: "Many books can be used in two ways, as a finding aid (i.e., as a source for clues toward future research), and as a cited source (i.e., a relationship is claimed with the source given as a reference). The example mentioned above uses a book as a finding aid. All but the most pitiful genealogies have at least some value in this regard, but the usefulness as a finding aid is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT (apologies for shouting) when grading a book on the correctness of the relationships given. In the best of all possible worlds you go to the original documents for every fact claimed, but this is not always possible or practical. The grades help people who are unfamiliar with the source to decide how likely the given source is to be mistaken on the relationships claimed. (To give an example which has not been discussed before, the Ancestral File database gets an "F" as a source for genealogical relationships, because of its completely ridiculous unreliability. However, it is still a very useful finding aid. Note that, in this case, the "blame" for the "F" grade does not fall on the people who made the database, because they are not responsible for the fact that an item which should never be used as anything but a finding aid is being used by many as if it were a citable source. On the other hand, the "blame" for the unreliability of Burke rests squarely on the shoulders of the authors, as has been discussed here before.)" -------- Stewart Baldwin -----------------